Constance
0:00:00
Hi, Carla, it is so nice to see you and I'm so excited to be interviewing you today for my article, diversity, equity and inclusion in tourism. Where do we stand today? A little background of how I know Carla just for my listeners. I've known Carla for almost a year and a half. We met through the University of South Carolina's outdoor club, also known as MWW or the mountaineering and whitewater club to be interviewing her today. I have loved watching her grow and get to know her as a person over this year and a half and her outgoing and courageous driven personality lights up a room. So I'm really honored to be sitting with her today. So everyone welcome Carla. Carla, thank you. Tell me a little bit about yourself for the viewers. What do you do? What's your deal? Tell me a little about yourself.

Carla
0:00:51
Yeah, so my name is Carla Vaca-Pinacho and I am a DEI project coordinator for a strategic marketing agency called Miles Partnership. DEI standing for diversity, equity and inclusion. My role within my department and within my company is to kind of push forward the projects internally and externally within the DEI team. And just kind of keeping making sure everyone stays on time and, you know, turns in what or make sure to push the initiatives that they're they start and they complete them on time as well. So that could be to anything from leading our DEI committee meetings to our actual client work and when we have to get things to the client and get things from the client, depending on what type of relationship I have with the client itself. I work under, so the way my company works or my department works is I have a chief diversity and inclusion officer, and then there's a VP DEI or the VP of diversity, equity and inclusion. And then there is our account director that helps the CDIO with any of the accounts that we have. The cool thing about our, you know, department is that we kind of, we are a consulting department, and then we are also, we have services as well that we offer. So, we are more driven through the DEI strategic planning and kind of managing stakeholders’ kind of perspective rather than a lot of what our other employees at the company do is they kind of lead projects having to do with destinations like visitors guides or destinations, like, maybe meetings or initiatives that they have with this. destination marketing organization. Compared to us, we could honestly be with any, we could, you know, have different types of clients. We prefer we have clients in the hospitality and tourism space or the tourist travel space, but yeah, that's a little bit of what I do.

Constance
0:03:31
So cool. And kind of what drew you to this, whether it be this company or this field, travel and tourism in general, what drew you to it?

Carla
0:03:40
Honestly, I think there was a lot of things that drove me to it. But I think I'm probably going to answer two questions at a time. But something that, you know, it was from the start, kind of that community that I saw where I worked my first job in the hospitality and tourism space, I saw this kind of connection and the experience that you provide to travelers and people staying at a hotel is a different experience and not, honestly, you have a lot of diverse people and you have so many people like that have different personalities industry. And it's just really, it was really cool to see that kind of, like from the bottom up and the up to the bottom, just kind of that ecosystem of different types of people and personalities and how they all came together to provide this one experience. It comes from like even like HR that you don't see them to the people in the kitchen, like, that are providing food for the people, you know, working in front, you know, in the front lines, such as the receptionist, the spa receptionist, and all these things. So, where I worked to start off kind of inspired me to pursue it. And it was kind of a challenge because my parents knew that it wasn't, and I knew at first that it wasn't going to be a very well-paid industry, or at least that's what we thought. But after realizing it now, it's actually paid much better than I expected compared to other industries, and there's growth in it. At least I see myself growing.

Constance
0:05:37
Yeah. Yeah, well, I feel like that's, I mean, that's what's beautiful about these different fields is that wherever there's growth, being able to find that and really, or at least like finding it and then like really building off of it is kind of like what brings you joy to your field. So I'm so glad that you're passionate about this. And I'm glad I'm getting to talk to you today about it. What sort of things to have may have like success points that you've seen that you've been like, oh, okay, I know I can build on this. What sort of things, challenges, any turning points? So, let's start with the positives.

Carla
0:06:07
Yeah, yeah. I think a lot of the opportunities that I experienced, not only within my college career, but seeing them outside of, you know, the college environment, was what kind of kept me going as a person and provided that positivity and that growth. And sometimes it wasn't even like that it was handed to me. I had to go search for it because a lot of people kind of, you know, they kind of check off the list of like, oh, this internship for the major in tourism manager or in certain degree. But to me, it was like always kind of given if like, I have to give like 150%. Like I have to go give more in order to get more. And I, whenever I was in college, I would always attend a lot of the events. So, professors would see my face, recognize me, know that I was there and then, you know, in hopes that there would be opportunities given to me and thankfully there were. There were scholarships given to me, international, like abroad opportunities given to me due to me participating in those things. And then also, yeah, I guess that's the positives.

Constance
0:07:38
Yeah, that's the reason. Well, I feel like that's so important. Just something as little as a professor seeing your face can give you so many different connections, which I definitely resonate with as someone who's still in college. That's something I also strive to do. I admire that about you, and that's amazing. What are some challenges that you've seen, I guess, as you've grown in your career, starting from, I guess, the beginning to the end? Just kind of like where do you see yourself now in terms of like what are those challenges that you're trying to overcome?

Carla
0:08:02
Yeah I mean honestly I think you can relate with some of the challenges as well. Being you know in an industry that maybe isn't I don't know like being in just an industry that might not be as known but like kind of just finding ways to be you know seen by others you know students other students and then having to work extra hard sometimes to get notice. Because to us, it was like a lot of other industries within HRSM or the hospitality, retail and sports management degree. I mean, they were represented overall very well, but tourism was probably one of the least. Or there wasn't as many opportunities that I saw that were like tourism, like it was more of like hospitality, you know?

Constance
0:08:57
Yeah, yeah.

Carla
0:08:58
Which makes sense, they go hand in hand, but just kind of being able to be that tourism advocate. And like I said, doing extra, like you know, like you have to do a bunch of things at once in a week. Like whenever I interviewed for this position, I was like, time management, I got that down because I am part of this club, I am working, I have my actual like classes, you know, but it's like a different like, you know, switch. Different ballgame, yeah. So yeah, I think that was the challenge then. Now, I definitely, I didn't realize it at first, but I, or maybe I did a little bit. I didn't think about it whenever I was in college, but it is a predominantly like, this industry is predominantly white industry and a lot of people in the industry are, you know, kind of the same people and I've drifted more towards of that diverse background and realizing there are more, there's more diversity within the industry than I, you know, thought there was and, you know, have drifted to see that more. I do see it being a challenge of like being able to move forward in my career. But I think in a way it will be a good challenge because I think it will be, it will be to learn like what people to lean on, what kind of, you know, route to take and, you know, kind of like where to go. I also see, you know, in the near future, just like getting, you know, trying things and then failing. I definitely like in college, I kind of learned the bare minimum when it came to tourism and just like business in general. I don't think I can recall a lot. I think you and I spoke about this a lot of marketing resources, a lot of resources in general that I could use in the work that I'm doing now. I think if it would have been a different route that I went, I could have probably navigated. Like if I was, you know, if I would have done like a country club or something, a job in the country club, I feel like it would have been a different way of navigating that compared to where I am now. I work with something that works internationally that works primarily remotely, like a lot of our employees are remote, a lot of our clients are all over the world. So it's kind of like that, that it was a little bit more of a challenge to realize than I thought. And, you know, dealing with a lot more professionals in that regard, like, was a lot more that I saw, that I'm seeing right now. I'm noticing, like, I'm in front of a lot of different professionals that I didn't expect to be in front of.

Constance
0:12:23
Well, that's also something that's interesting about our world today and kind of opening, I guess, the scene to online and being connected to people who are, you know, across the globe who are doing what you're doing. And that's amazing. And I've loved watching you and just like seeing you. Okay, for the listeners, Carla travels all the time and she loves looking at her Instagram. She goes to all these places and she's wonderful at documenting them. So little, little side thing, but that I'm so proud of you. And it's, it's amazing.

Carla
0:12:54
And I feel like also like you have to like, don't like, I think listeners also Constance has been all over the world. And I think that's just the start. Like that's literally the start of like more, you know people like us, we strive to do more, not just the bare minimum. And that's where you see people like yourself going far and other people going far because we're not just doing that bare minimum of 40 hours.

Constance
0:13:28
We're looking for those marketing classes. We're looking for them. Even though we didn't have them, we look for those.

Carla
0:13:35
We're looking for the resources and making those resources useful to the things that we do day to day. Because as much as like, you know, doing the things that you do at work are useful and you want to have this work-life balance, especially for the time that we have right now and like where we are as individuals that don't have kids, you know, and at least taking those opportunities. And people that do have kids also have, building those opportunities for them? Or people who have these barriers, how do we give them those opportunities or at least put those resources accessible for them to kind of grow as well? So yeah.

Constance
0:14:17
I feel like this is a good transition into, I guess, the focus of the article that I'm going for and with diversity, equity, and inclusion. So I want to start off by asking, how would you describe the current state of diversity and inclusion in tourism industry today? Where do you see it now, especially in your work today? Big question.

Carla
0:14:36
Right.

Constance
0:14:39
Yeah.

Carla
0:14:39
So I definitely get like sat on this question because it's a big question to tackle. And I have to talk to a lot of different individuals and then I've gotten to see, kind of, you know, in the conferences that I've gotten to go, here are individuals that have tried to break this barrier, tried to kind of bring these people together when it comes to diversity organizations or diverse organizations with the travel industry and It's crazy to like hear how much they struggle and it's because you know People you know, there's like certain culture depending on you know the hotel the destination and all different, you know, there's so many things that Kind of not barriers but like layers to it. And sometimes it could be like they just have a bad experience and maybe the person just, you know, is not or maybe the person isn't educated about this stuff.

Constance
0:15:55
Exactly. Yeah, which is a large part of it. So, yeah.

Carla
0:15:58
It's the worst part. And even when you educate sometimes it's not even it doesn't go through the first time, so it's making sure that you keep educating or you keep striving for it, that, in a sense, equity from, like, for them to think about the equity. And then also, I mean, providing the equity is like probably the most important part too. Inclusion, bringing everyone in and then making sure that you are equitable for all. So, I mean, the state of it is like there is so many, you know, like I said, layers. There's also like accessibility, there's belonging, there's all these different things that kind of provide to the state of it. I think it's slowly working its way up after George Floyd and the pandemic. From what I, you know, hear from individuals, it was a good kind of push forward to a lot of things, but it had started before. It had the conversation, we've had these conversations before. It's just whether people are willing to invest in them. And thankfully I can say like my company is willing to invest to it in a holistic way.

Constance
0:17:39
Yes, definitely. Gosh. Well, those conversations are so important. Unfortunately, sometimes they end up on the global scale and they have to be thrown in people's faces. But it's good to hear that the conversation is starting and continuing and in so many different ways, in so many different languages, in so many different groups. It's a beautiful thing. It's a human experience. So what are some more positive, we love positive, what are some more positive examples or success stories or initiatives promoting diversity in the tourism sector that you've seen? So what are some projects that you've seen?

Carla
0:18:16
There's a lot of different examples. To me specifically, something that I just worked on with an organization called Tourism Diversity Matters, which is an organization focused on kind of bringing that knowledge or education of diversity to the tourism industry. And they do like a DEI apprenticeship. They do kind of providing articles, insights. And we worked with them directly to develop this conference called the Collective Experience. And it was their first year this year. And it was really cool because they brought like a lot of different people from the tourism industry. They also brought in educational institutions to bring them to the conversations. So they had kind of an academic route and then they had just corporate industry route where, you know, you got to see a lot of those industry representatives that have been in those discussions about like, you know, being inclusive to, you know, the LGBTQ plus community, being inclusive to, you know, disabled, impaired, you know, neurodiverse community, people that do education sessions for the industry, for organizations, and they were speaking on these conferences. They brought the NAACP with the, what's it, to talk to, oh my goodness, why am I forgetting? The, it's, the U.S. Travel Association. So, they brought the CEO of the U.S. Travel Association. And big names, yeah. Yeah, they brought those two people together to kind of have this discussion around like what, you know, what has been the struggle, you know, kind of also this kind of the state of DEI with the travel industry. And then you saw a lot of the education side being more towards like what can they do in institutions to bring either, you know, students, you know, to the pipeline of DEI could travel. So it was like this big conference that really like opened a lot of people's eyes and brought people from the industry together to kind of have this like crazy, just like networking opportunity. And then just kind of really helped to provide more insight of like what the travel industry can do regarding DEI in either the educational institutions and also the industry and how we can all work together. So, that was one of the big ones. And then, I mean, there's a lot of summits that kind of the industry does. One was like a DEI summit by Destinations International, which is the – or they call it EDI, but it's DEI. But it's just an international, so the Destinations International is like an organization that focuses on the destination marketing organizations and bringing them together to talk about either advocacy with the industry or education around other things. So bringing those people together. And then, I mean, I feel like I can say more. I think it was difficult, and I think it will be difficult next year to kind of, you know, continue to do these initiatives as a step in the direction.

Constance
0:22:19
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Carla
0:22:20
We have to be very strategic of, like, where we are going to talk about it. So, you're good. So yeah, it'll be interesting to see, but there's, you know, even like a lot of destinations, like kind of getting consulting services from other organizations or companies that kind of come in and tell them like this is where there is, you know, this type of people or identity people, even though they're probably not as diverse of a state or a city or a destination, this is where you have those people and like this is how you can use them for your content and to bring other people to this destination. Well, those are like the little details that mean so much and like you wouldn't think about it on the outside, but when you really think about, I guess the planning of it all, it really matters.

Constance
0:23:07
Well, I want to talk more about education. I know I'm skipping a little bit, but before I dive into that, how do you see tourism industry contributing to a more equitable opportunities in terms of that, so DEI and all that?

Carla
0:23:33
Yeah. So, I think honestly taking a holistic approach. I think a lot of people kind of like, they check off the boxes and they kind of, you know, we've had instances or an example is like we've had someone be like, oh we want to write this inclusive article, but they don't use the community to talk about that inclusive topic or talk about like the LGBTQ plus community or the black community, the Hispanic community, and they don't have that identity at all. So, you know, something that we talk about as a team is to be intentional and make sure that you, you know, use the people that, not use of people, but get the people with the perspective, the experience, or also that have lived that identity to talk to that certain audience. And then another thing is like kind of just using the community stakeholders within your destination or just within the organization to kind of be equitable in that sense. Like, make sure that if you want to do, you know, something for Hispanic Heritage Month, get someone from the Hispanic community to make that effort. Or, you know, push that effort forward. I know it's sometimes hard because, you know, there's some people that, you know, don't want to push that forward as much because they might not feel like they have the time or the support, but yeah. Talking that holistic approach and then also getting, if it comes to either a destination or an organization that wants to do that within the tourism industry, making sure that they bring someone with those specific expertise of consulting on the industry that's like kind of like a third party so that they can kind of like, you know, bring all these stakeholders together and then be done.

Constance
0:25:31

Well, I mean, it's not the real deal until you actually talk to those people. I feel like it's just that extra effort of, you know, getting to know the community that is oh so important. And I feel like I can't, you know, because I could talk about something all day, but if I'm not them or if I don't know them or if I'm not including them in the conversation, I mean, it just, I feel like it just, you know, it doesn't hit as hard. So, so I want to transition into, I guess, the more educational questions. I know we hinted on education a little bit and the tourism industry, but how do you think that businesses and organizations within the tourism industry can actively work towards creating a more inclusive environment?

Carla
0:26:44
I think one of the biggest things that we talk about when it comes to our own organization. And then also, you know, building initiatives at other, you know, events or just in other areas is, you know, creating a space for those voices. So if that is creating affinity groups within your organization, if that is just like giving them space to talk about like current events, you know, just like what's going on in the world and saying like, it's okay if you want to talk about this. Your voice matters and it is, you know, going to be heard. And if you have any questions about things that you're questioning or that you're, you know, that you're curious about, like something, a couple of our values from our organization is, one is be curious and that requires asking questions and not being afraid to ask questions. And I really value that, I guess, core value from our organization because sometimes you are scared to ask questions because you feel like you might get judgment. But if you create the space of, let's just say, young professionals, like there's an affinity group of young professionals. They have a space where they can all talk about, like, oh, I feel like I can't ask my boss this question, and they're like, oh, I feel the same way. You know, like if there is a group, kind of like a support group, creating that space, and then, you know, those people push each other to kind of break that barrier or let's just say, hey, can I practice with you to ask my boss this question? And that's where it starts, that conversation. And then just providing credible information, which goes back to like making sure those, the people that identify with that information are talking about the information.

Constance
0:28:50
Yeah, certainly.

Carla
0:28:51
And about, you know, the, I guess, I went to this conference called Travelability, which focused on travel for accessible travel. And accessibility to travel can mean so many things, but specifically to the community impaired and doesn't have, that is either in wheelchairs or in, you know, doesn't have that ability to move as easily. But something that, you know, they saw in, that they spoke about is like some, you know, organizations talk about that they, or they promote, they market that they have these accessible destinations. And they don't even know what that is, you know, because they haven't had someone that has that, you know, impairment or disability, even neurodiversity or, you know, that kind of disability in that space. And make sure that that type of education is, you know, true and credible is very important. I'm going to come back to you. Yes. Gosh, that is so interesting.

Constance
0:30:09
And I mean, I see all these things I didn't know about because this is not my field. But as someone who enjoys traveling, knowing that other groups of people who don't, I mean, like I said earlier, darn giving opportunities on a silver platter gives me so much joy. And I mean, traveling should be for all people, like I said, it's a human experience. And I know that we can both share that, especially after things we've done and places we've been. But that is so cool. Have you seen ones that are more successful than others? Have you seen like a lot of success with this, these groups and stuff?

Carla
0:30:45
Yeah, yeah. You have seen destinations where they actually talk to organizations, do audits, invest in those types of education services from different organizations where they focus on, let's just say, people with autism that travel or people in wheelchairs that travel or they bring in, you know, influencers or people that live in their community that are focused in the LGBTQ plus community that are Latinos or Latinas or they are, you know, they are from the black community and they bring it to either their platforms, social media platforms, or they bring them to the actual people working on these things. So if that is a conference, something that every state does is a governor's conference, which is, or they might call it something else, but it's just like a conference where the governor or the political stakeholders and the travel industry or yeah travel stakeholders, hospitality and industry come together and talk about the certain trends that are going on or the things that even like let's just say the state is doing like I know I went to the one for South Carolina this year and it was a lot of like what we're working on to better the parks and recreation of the state and how much they've actually invested. What are some of the destinations that have been successful and where they can move forward? But something that I hope to see in future conversations of like those kinds of conferences and is more of that DEI space and talk, because I know there's just like certain conferences that happen annually specific to DEI, but they aren't to, you know, they aren't for like the certain state. There's some states that might bring those kind of speakers in, but then there's states that try and then like people don't listen, you know. So hopefully we break those barriers and improve that kind of information, not information, but that, you know, awareness and hopefully people listen and apply it and bring people into to actually move on with move forward with initiatives.

Constance
0:33:36
That's so cool.

Constance
0:33:38
Well, I mean, with everything comes growth. So, and this is certainly something that I feel like is growing a lot more than it has been in the past, especially since travel has changed the past 20 years with, you know, 9-11 and then COVID and just all these things. So, it's definitely been interesting to me. I mean, we both lived through it, literally. So, it's been quite a ride. Well, I'm going to end us on one more question, and it's going to be part of the article, but it's going to be part of you. And so I'm really interested to see how you respond. But it's, can you share any personal experiences or stories that highlight the importance of diversity and inclusion in travel and tourism?

Carla
0:34:16
I think a lot of the personal experiences I have had, have been just being part of this team. I think if I wasn't part of this diversity, equity, and inclusion team at my organization, I wouldn't have been exposed to a lot of the things that I am, I have been exposed this year and these past couple it's been months now with this organization. So honestly, I mean there's like there's people that I talked or I see it within my organization and I travel I've gotten to travel more than other people and not saying that in like I said, Brian, but I want to say it's your job. Yeah, it's because it's part of our job. It's part of what we seek out to do. And because we are a smaller team, there's more of those opportunities. But it's given me a chance to kind of get out of South Carolina, which if you don't know, I've mostly lived in North Carolina. I'm Mexican, and I was born in Mexico, but I've lived in South Carolina most of my life. And going out to these different destinations and coming back to my state, realizing how much diversity there, you know, I knew there was, but there is, and it's just kind of like on the DL. But at the same time, I've always drifted towards those groups, which I know, you know, MWW, I consider that, you know, group of people very diverse and in like mind, like way like we're, we're all different individuals. And that's why so much to going to those events because I knew each person that I spoke to had their own story and had their own perspectives and was willing to share them. And so coming back and hoping to continue to talk to those people and continue to either provide insight or provide, you know, support in any way is something that I hope to, you know, do. But yeah, I guess personal experiences, traveling, like I said, traveling and coming back, I've gotten, like, being in those spaces where there's such diverse, like, group of people, and they're all working for the same kind of, you know, goals, was something that has been really impactful for me and has provided me a lot of, what's it called? A lot of motivation to keep going and trying different things and pursuing my own initiatives as well.

Constance
0:37:29
Yeah, what is, and I know I didn't write this down in my questions, but what does that look like for you? So your own initiatives? I mean, whether, I know we had a little bit of a conversation, so I want to ask more about it. I think it's so cool, and I want to ask about it again.

Carla
0:37:43
I think, okay, so my own initiatives, I think one of the things that I think, I don't know if I mentioned, I can't remember which one I mentioned. But one of the, remind me if these are not the ones, but one of the things that I'm working on is kind of this informative guide to the Spanish language and kind of like how, you know, being bilingual, how, you know, the Hispanic market and also the Spanish language as a market is, you know, brings so many dollars in. And I think we've, I think as business, people in business have been knowing it for a while, but specifically to the tourism industry, understanding what that inclusive language might be, if it is writing in a certain way, and what are some of the, you know, different, you know, the Hispanic community is so big, like, it is a lot of Latin America, it is, you know, including Spain and we all speak differently, have our own slang. So kind of like, depending on like what the destination is and what, you know, what is your biggest market, if that is, let's just say, if you're in South Carolina, maybe there's more Mexicans use the Spanish Mexican language or something like that, or if you're in like Chicago or New York and there's more Puerto Ricans, kind of use kind of their Spanish language or, you know, how the grammar and the inclusiveness can be. And then another thing that I'm working on is kind of at this conference, the Destinations We want to bring, you know, underrepresented groups from the tourism industry together. So, we're not sure if it will be, you know, Hispanic or just all first-gen or what we want to do. I think we'll figure it out a little bit more, but just kind of bring them together and talk about the statistics of how there are, I think, less than 6% of Hispanics in the tourism industry. And I think around the same thing for the Black community. And then there's less than 2% from the Asian community in the tourism industry. Yeah. And that varies because that's different from the hospitality industry, because at least these numbers come from people in the destination marketing organization side. So let's just say Visit California is a DMO. And then let's say Spain has their own marketing organization that you know, brings tourists to their destination. And then there's like New Zealand has their own, you know, organization that brings those. But so those people are not as diverse as, you know, you expect them to be. And, you know, that's where all those numbers come from. But kind of bringing those underrepresented groups together to talk about, you know, their experience in the industry, could be either the Hispanic experience and then understanding how we can grow that pipeline so that, you know, so something about the statistics is like most of the Hispanic community sits in the entry level positions and the pipeline goes down. So there's like very minimal amount of leaders or executive level CEOs of Hispanics. And then there's actually more black people that are a larger percentage in the CEO, in the C-suite level for them. It's a weird, so understanding how- That's so interesting.

Constance
0:42:03
Yeah. Yeah. Like how all that works together is just fascinating because like you wouldn't expect it, but also like you don't know until you look at the numbers.

Carla
0:42:09
Exactly. So, and it's, it might be even, and it's just kind of like having that conversation of like, how did those people, those diverse people get into those C-suite level positions? Or how can, you know, people that are in entry level positions move forward to manager positions or then to a supervisor position. So just creating those conversations and then building a community as well.

Constance
0:42:33
Well, that's where DEI comes in. So that's awesome. And I'm, you know, this has been a wonderful conversation and honestly, I would make this three hours long if I could. But thank you, Carla. This has been such a treat. I'm so glad I've gotten to sit down with you, even though it's over Zoom, about these important conversations. And thank you for helping me with my project and this initiative. And I'm glad that I'm getting to speak about something that isn't my wheelhouse, but I'm glad that I get to, you know, listen to what you're passionate about and all these things. And I've learned so much today. So, I appreciate it. Thank you.

Carla
0:43:09
No, and I think, thank you, Constance. I think it's great what you're doing. And I mean, you're doing the same thing of creating space for women in leadership and building up to leadership. So I really appreciate just you as a person and always being so friendly and inviting and just also interested in listening to more from everyone. It's not just me. I can see like always interested in learning more and seeing more and that's amazing. I appreciate it. No, that means a lot to me. It's so, so important and I'm so grateful to know you and just all the incredible things that you're doing. So thank you and thank you everyone for listening. Carla, do you want to share anything about, about and plug anything, current projects, your Instagram?

Carla
0:44:04
Oh yeah, yeah. So my Instagram, I actually changed it recently. It's called Chicana Ventures, which I don't know if you can like tag it or something, but it's Chicana, it means like I am born in Mexico, but I lived in the United States and grew up in the United States most of my life and it's part of my identity. So I kind of like switched it from being my last name. But if you just look me up on Instagram for Karla Vacopnato it should come up. But yeah, that's my Instagram. Also on LinkedIn if anyone ever wants to connect. And then I work for Miles Partnerships. So yeah.

Constance
0:44:48
Well, hit her up. Thank you so much. I'm going to end this right here, but we will talk. Thank you so much. I'm going to end this right here, but we will talk. And thank you everyone. Round of applause. Okay, thank you, Carla. Alright. Bye!